A Detroit House History Lesson with Stacey “Hotwaxx” Hale and Al Ester
Thus far, Season 4 of UltraMaroon has explored different sub-genres of house music. This month we are going to flip the script a bit and explore the House Music of a specific location.
Detroit is the birthplace of Techno, but what about House? In order to figure this one out we decided to join forces with the one and only Rimarkable for UltraMaroon’s first co-curation. Together we selected two of the Detroit scene’s O.G.s that could not only represent the genre/location intersection, but also the queerness and the blackness of it all: the Godmother of House, Stacey “Hotwaxx” Hale and Al Ester. They’ll be joining us on Sunday, March 19, and ahead of that we asked DavidXDaisy to help us get to know what we’re getting into. This is more than a quick interview, so get your reading glasses on and scroll down…
This month’s interview is special, thorough, and speaks to the soul. When I was given the names of our March guest headliners and sat down to begin my homework as I do for every story, I quickly realized this would not be my typical talkback. This interview takes us back more than 40 years ago to the very beginnings of house music through the lens of Detroit with two artists that helped shape the sound we all share today. The following story is edited from four hours of phone calls, Zoom chats, and messages. You will first hear from our co-curators of this episode, Rimarkable and Someone From Berlin, as they introduce our guests, Stacey “Hotwaxx” Hale and Al Ester, who will be joining us directly from Detroit at UltraMaroon on Sunday, March 19, in New York City. Take a moment today to read their stories and get into the history of House.
RIMARKABLE & SOMEONE FROM BERLIN
DXD: This is clearly a very special edition of UltraMaroon that not only celebrates the origins of house music, but brings the legends themselves to the decks. How did this ball get rolling between you two?
SFB: I had been thinking about how to program the back half of our fourth season, and one of the thematics I was playing with in my head was about regional sound. Detroit as the birthplace of Techno and a critical location in the proliferation of house has always been of interest to me. I’m very much outside of the scene there, and figured that I would need help if I wanted to do this city justice. I immediately thought of Rimarkable as a potential collaborator in figuring out the right roster. We’ve worked together in the past and it’s always been a pleasure, and she’s got roots in Detroit!
RI: I had a party I started in Brooklyn that is on sabbatical right now called De Trois, which is a nickname of Detroit, and I was bringing in Detroit artists specifically to play at this party – Detroit artists only. As it was becoming known and more popular, Someone From Berlin noticed, and was like, “Hey, I want to do a collab, maybe we could do an event together, or I want to do a Detroit-focused UltraMaroon party. And I was like, dope, but I don't want it to be like De Trois, because my party is not centered on queerness, it is centered on Detroit. And that's a very difficult thing to do sometimes as a queer artist because people think if you're queer, you have to do everything queer and everything's for the culture, but I have a lot of layers and complexities to me. Before I'm anything, I'm a Black woman, you know. And after that, I'm Black woman from Detroit. And I'm a musician and I'm a DJ. Queerness is a very important byproduct, but I don't lead my life with it. But it is important to me, of course, because I do a lot of queer stuff.So he was like alright, cool, then how should we do this? And I said I'll bring in some queer DJs from Detroit, and the two most important queer artists in that town to me are these two and that's what happened. And SFB asked to see some clips. Then he was like, oh, okay they will love these guys. It's going to be out of control. They're coming from out of town so they're gonna work extra hard. I'm super proud of them and it was my pleasure to bring this together. They don't get to play in New York enough.
DXD: What are some of the key points of the history of house and electronic music in Detroit that lovers of this genre should know?
RI: Well the very cool thing about Detroit electronic music is that it was formulated on queerness – not necessarily that queerness being about sexuality, but about being different. The real sound of techno is soulful. It's soulful, nerdy, spacey, chaotic, and alternative. You know, the ‘founders’ of the genre as they are celebrated are straight men. But this music is queer. And people also also need to know that Detroit techno influenced house music – Chicago and Detroit are very close to one another. And the founders of techno were influencing their friends like Frankie Knuckles, Ron Hardy, and all these guys that were their friends. People need to know that this music is queer, and it's Black. It's rich and it’s special.
SFB: I just want to add that I’m really proud to say that every programming decision we make has an intention behind it. We don’t always bring in a queer DJ, but we always have a reason for our choices. This episode it’s about exploring our nightlife community’s history, and celebrating its queer, Black roots. Rimarkable and I are presenting an all-Black, all-Michigan, all-queer lineup and I’m happily stepping off the roster for the first time since starting the series in 2018 to make as much room as possible for our guests.
RI: With that said, I would like to introduce to the UltraMaroon community two of the most influential DJ producers of all time, Al Ester and Stacey “Hotwaxx” Hale.
STACEY & AL
DXD: How did you each get your respective starts in nightlife before becoming DJs?
STACEY: I went into a gay club – that's when the lightbulb went off. I was already into music and doing things, but actually went into the Chessmate and saw Ken Collier, Renaldo White and Morris Mitchell playing together. They called themselves True Disco. Since I was already into music and looking at my older brothers doing music and stuff, I was familiar with a receiver, a turntable, speakers, and the separation of it all. But I had never seen anything like two turntables and a mixer before in my life. And then I heard the music mix. And when I heard that, I climbed up in that booth and looked over there to see it all. That's what started it for me.
AL: I went to my first party, my first actual night party with DJs and disco music, when I was 12-years-old. That's when I got a taste of it to actually see what this was like right before they really started playing disco on the radio. You know, it was coming into power on the radio. And that's the first night I heard Gary’s Gang, “Keep on Dancin’.” And I was like, this is it, this where I want to be, this is what I want to do. So that's how I kind of got a taste for it. Of course the equipment didn't come until much later in high school, but I had component sets – I suppose it was like a radio receiver with a turntable built on top. I got one for my birthday, and my family got one for Christmas. l put the two together and those were my turntables. That's how I started the first gig I played.
My first legitimate club gig came in high school. It was a club which was also kind of close to what the Paradise Garage did, but on a much smaller scale, and was called L’uomo Detroit. And we used to have high school parties for each high school. Just by chance one night at Mumford High night, Ken Collier asked me to come up and play a record. And that's when the owner asked who I was. We talked and I told him I was in high school, and he had me start to come as a floater. So if Ken was going to be late or delayed or couldn't make it, I would come in and play until whoever was taking over, and that was my first night party. So yeah, I say L’uomo Detroit was my first club gig.
DXD: What do you feel defines the Detroit house sound?
AL: Stacey Hale and myself were the first DJs in Detroit to ever play house music, as a matter of fact. There was a record store here called Buy-Right Music, and Cliff Thomas, the owner, would get these records, like maybe one or two copies. And he was like, “Here, I'm gonna give you this record to play tonight and you tell me what the reaction is.” So that's kind of how house music came into Detroit. And back then when any house record came out, you bought it because there weren't many, you know, there were like twelve good ones. After that, once it took on a life of its own, all these records were hopping out every week, every other day.
STACEY: It is very soulful and it has some funk put in it. And I see that being very unique. That says we come from a funk association. I mean Electrifying Mojo, Midnight Funk Association, that's where we come from. And so we've always incorporated that in our sound and our song. We've been funky. The soulful part of it means it has feeling and it has words and it says something, and I can relate to that as being soulful and funk. That goes back to what it was like, and it still is very big here. Even like the remixes and stuff that you play now and even with the new sounds, it primarily has the funk in it, in my own opinion. And for many people it becomes acceptable when you hear something, and that is how it becomes more acceptable, for me, because I like words. I like to be sung to, I like to be tapped into, I like a story. And when I play music, I tell a story. I take you on a journey. And that's it right there. If you can't take someone on a journey, when all you hear is beats, it can be good, but you have to come in and say something. And I like instrumentals and I kill myself looking for acapellas because it may be something that has a beat that is really hot, but if it’s not saying a word, I'll find the word, overlay it, and I'll play it. I will drop it right over it. I am notorious in that I will find the words.
DXD: In respect to house music as Black music, what do you both feel is the experience of being Black in cities like Detroit/Chicago/NYC that gave rise not only to the house genre, but also techno’s origins in Detroit and other electronic dance music?
STACEY: The church, because that's where it was actually originally born. In the church, the Baptist Church, that's where the soul of house music came from. Hands down. You know, house music is 99% positive – it's always uplifting. It always makes you feel good and always makes you throw your hands up. That's what it does. And that's why I love house music.
AL: Music has no color. I mean, you have one of my relatives on my father's side who was one of the biggest black country singers on the planet, Charlie Pride. You know, the country western is usually associated with white people, but let's see, you also have Leontyne Price, a black opera singer. To say that house is black music is like music is just music to me. I've never seen color in music.
You have all these different branches now – EDM, drum and bass, etc. It's expanded, you know, and people like that. That's kind of a loaded question, you know. It's not that there's a right or wrong answer to that. Different strokes for different folks. I guess that would be a good way to put it.
DXD: What was Detroit’s version of The Warehouse or Paradise Garage, and who were the people that made it happen?
STACEY: Heaven by Ken Collier. Frankie [Knuckles] would come here, and Ken would go there. And I would go to the Garage, I never met Larry, but I would go and look up and watch that wheel of records going around, which just blew me away. I would go to The Warehouse to see all that, and I knew Frankie. You know, we talked and stuff, and it is a blessing. You don’t realize these things until later. Now that I'm older, I’m still blessed and relevant because I liked the music. Forty years later, and I still have a residence at the club Spot Lite with my friend, Jenny LaFemme, and we continue to do things to help each other's dreams come true.
AL: I would say, in my opinion, there were three. There was Ken Collier’s, obviously. And before Ken Collier had his club, Mike Neil had L’uomo, which was like a tiny version of the Garage, and obviously the Music Institute. Those three to me were as close as what I saw in New York. The Music Institute was really, really close to what the Garage did. Chez Damier, Alton Miller, Anthony Pearson, and George Baker were the owners, and it was at 1315 Broadway, and it opened at midnight and the club was hot. It lasted for almost a year, maybe a year and a half and as quickly as it opened, it closed. But it was a period you had to be there, this was over 30 years ago, and no one can tell you about it. It was a feeling. So I kind of equate that with the Garage a little bit. At one point it was the 44th best club on the planet back in like ‘87 or ‘88. Kevin Saunderson would play techno there, and Friday night was theirs. Friday night was like a straight night. And Saturday was kind of gay, and that's when Chez Damier and Alton Miller would play.
DXD: As originators, who inspired you when you were getting your respective starts?
STACEY: The True Disco, that was my inspiration. And I learned from him. I taught myself alot, but then I was like okay, you can't quite get this, you need a little help. And then there was my uncle Al Hughes who used to sing at Opus One, and was very musical. He gave me my first job as a DJ. And he's like, “Girl, turn it up!” I was scared to turn it up. I was naive and I was growing and it was new. I hadn’t studied it to know that this could always be continuous. So in my mind, I thought I could mix five records, then stop; then mix five more and stop – that it can't just go on and on and on. But I had that in my mind long before I went there, that the music could and should be continuous.
AL: Honestly, I don't give her enough credit: Stacey Hale. She played a very instrumental role in where I am today. She taught me the technical stuff and the mental stuff – mental games about you know how to build over the madness. She was very instrumental in that. That's like my sister. That's never going to change.
DXD: As technology has changed how house music is created and shared, what setups have you felt best worked with you in the DJ booth?
AL: Well now I swear by CDJs. When I played vinyl, I said I’ll never play CDs. As I started playing CDs, I said I'll never go back to vinyl. And then when USB sticks came out, I said I’ll never go back to CDs. So now I'm most comfortable playing on the deck with the CDJ's with the USB stick. The USB sticks allow you to carry a lot more music just in your pocket. Then I like the triggers on the decks, you can do more tricks, make more effects, and it makes it more fun to listen to and to play.
STACEY: Because I teach, I have to keep up with everything, and my background is engineering anyway. So I'm not afraid of it. I had a rough time leaving records, not that I left them, I still play my records. I love my records and there will always be records. Starting to play Serato on the computer was a major date. They took my CDs from me and made me play on Serato, and I was kicking and screaming. I look back and I just die laughing because, first of all, I had a fit about a CD. Because when CDs came out, there were no CD players like this. So I couldn't touch them like a record? Forget a CD. I just thought it was sacrilegious. I'm not going to put it in a drawer and push the button. No. I have to touch it. And so when it arrived and became where you could use the wheel and you could touch it, it felt like a record. That's when I embraced the CDs and was going like, okay, I can work with this.
At a famous gay bar, Woodward, or “The Woo” as it was called, the sound inside was tremendous. And me and Melvin Hill, he had a birthday, so we played there. And so many people came out because they were missing that sound, because it simply wasn't happening on the gay scene at the time, and they said please do this all the time. So we said oh, okay. So we did want to, but the sound was so tremendous that a record would just jump, and you couldn't play records, and he wanted to be on the floor with the people. So I said, you know, we can't play records out here because they will jump. That's a pet peeve of mine – I don't like that jump in the feedback. So we said, okay, we're gonna play CDs. So now we're busy burning and making CDs. And that was the first time I was introduced to MP3. And the MP3s weren't that good. And I remember one of my DJ friends put like 73 songs on a MP3. And you had to write them all down. I couldn't relate. It was too many. So give me 12 songs I can select from, but I literally learned how to play CDs live in front of people. They didn't know. I mean, you know, just because the science of it was the same. I remember I did that and then I was introduced to the computer, and eventually flash drives.
AL ESTER
DXD: You were a dancer from an early age. Tell us about that.
AL: When I was roughly 10 years old, we had a dance school in Detroit called TNT Incorporated. TNT Incorporated was the baddest dance group. As a matter of fact, we'd never lost a contest or competition to another dance group – it was always to singers or bands. So I've always been very rhythmic, since I was like five-years-old. And the group kind of came together. It took on a life of its own. We became like a local favorite. So you can always dance, you know, so I started on the dance floor. I wanted to do this and I knew what I wanted to hear.
DXD: As I read in your interview with Ash Lauryn for Resident Advisor, your residency at Cheeks is what cemented the beginning of your career. Can you tell us about Cheeks?
AL: Cheeks was the spot. The first person that I went to New York with, my brother's ex-girlfriend, Angie Patillo, threw a birthday party at Cheek’s. I was only 18 before I went to the Garage at 18 or 19, and she said that I was gonna come help her decorate. And then after we’re done decorating, I would go sit in the back, and then kind of slip out when the music starts. So that's how I got into Cheeks, you know. And I play that particular night for a party and the owner, Larry Marshall, is standing across the room. The DJ booth was like a vantage point, you can see the entire club from the booth. I'm playing and the floor is packed and the kids were going crazy. And I look up and these two guys in suits are staring at me like, get him, you know. So I kept playing another record and then one of the guys was gone, and I hear a knock at the door. I was like, “Oh shit they’re gonna ask me for an ID, and I don't have an ID. They’re gonna find out I'm young and I'm not 21.” Marshall Jackson came in and said, “Yo, man. What's your day? Where are you playing?” I said my basement. And he offered me a job on the spot. This was my college years after high school in ‘84. And I was, again, a floater. So if one of the residents didn't want to come in or had to take off or whatever, I was on.
Jeff Mills is a mega star DJ now. He's like one of the biggest names to come out of Detroit, and he had Wednesday nights at Cheeks. And after he left to pursue bigger and better things, I picked up the Wednesdays. And that's how my reputation kind of started rolling in Detroit. Incidentally, I met Stacy around the same time. I heard about this female DJ that is badass. And I just couldn't imagine a girl playing records. I just couldn't wrap my head around it. So she did Mondays. And Monday was a gay night. I went to one, you know. And I stood in front of her and I introduced myself to her and it kind of took off from there.
Cheeks on Wednesday night kind of became like a house night or dance night in Detroit. It could be a hurricane, it could be an earthquake. And each one of those Wednesday nights, Cheeks was packed. One night it was two feet of snow. It was snowing from 6am in the morning until 6 in the evening, nonstop. It was two feet. And my grandmother was like, “Hell, I don't even know why you bother going out. No one's going to be there. You’re gonna be there by yourself playing records.” About 10:30pm, I looked up, and Cheeks was packed. So that was kind of the mecca for house music in Detroit.
DXD: You also said to Lauryn this line that I love, “Keep it basic, simple and funky. Make them believe what I believe.” When it comes to music, what do you believe?
AL: Yeah, I have to believe it. How can you all believe if I don’t? I don't know exactly when it was that I started really dancing behind the decks where people told me I do strange shit when I play. I've never seen a video of me playing. You know, I just have to let go and just hope that they follow me. I mean, I try not to overthink. I just keep it simple, keep it basic, and keep it relatable. And it works. It has worked for 45 years.
DXD: “Soulful,” is a word that comes up often for you when it comes to house music. Isn’t that the real core of house music, to speak to the soul? Do you feel house music today is still connected to the soul?
AL: It is soulful. One of the most soulful artists out today, in my opinion, you can play almost anything by Kevin Everett and it is soulful as hell. I've never heard a record of his that wasn’t soulful. It will always be a go-to and whatever you put on by him is going to work because he is soulful. And that’s an example to know what my groove is.
And it is still soulful in small pockets. Yeah, small pockets. It's all over the place today, but it's taken on these new terms, new definitions, or these new titles you know like EDM or electro but it all comes from disco. Four-on-the-floor came from New York, but Chicago took it, simplified it, and made it house music.
DXD: There has been a resurgence in interest in disco and true house music that we have seen in the queer dance community in NYC in recent years. Have you felt that in the queer Detroit scene as well?
AL: Here it is strictly Cardi B and rap and what they think is hip hop on WJLB; that's the core scene, and the gay scene here, in my opinion. The gay scene here died after the Ken Collier Memorial Foundation split up. After we'd stopped the memorial, house music, I think as far as the gays here, went away. For The Ken Collier Memorial Fund, we would throw these parties where we donate the proceeds to diabetes, which was what Ken died of, and it went on for about two or three good years.
DXD: Is there a night on the decks in your career that you would most want to relive all over again and why?
AL: It would be one of the Wednesday nights at Cheeks, because I could experiment and I could play. I played only what I wanted to hear. Oh my goodness. They know that's what I do. For the most part, those days were my time to cut loose and to be creative. You know it’s kind of like my residency now that I have on Thursdays at Soul on Ice. I play only what I want to hear and they love it.
STACEY “HOTWAXX” HALE
DXD: As the Godmother of House Music and Detroit’s first female of house, what was your experience securing your spot in the DJ booth and what do those titles mean for you today as you look back on your career?
STACEY: I always have and still do, at this time, want to be known for what I deliver. I know that as a society and as a world, this is not a Detroit thing and it is not a New York thing, it is a human thing – we are destined to identify people by their gender and color. So, whenever someone will refer to me, they say, “She's good to be a girl.” They need it to be ID’d as that, and that will always not make me happy. I'm like, why can't I just be a good DJ? Have you ever in your life (think about this) had to say, “You're a good DJ to be a man.” Has that ever come out of anybody's mouth? The music has no gender and no color, it’s just going.
DXD: You’ve made your rounds playing at the Apollo Theatre, The Fox Detroit, and The Warehouse. What was a gig you had that you felt was a turning point in your career as an artist?
STACEY: I have been blessed in that arena. I came out of the gate playing for 800 people from midnight to 6, in a girl's late-night club called Club Hollywood. Later on it was called Club Exclusive, it was an after hours, all-girl club on Saturday night. I came out of the gate doing that gig. And I was in that club when the word started circling around that there is this girl playing this music. And after that I got the job at Cheeks, where Al and I met.
DXD: You said in a story for Nylon something that stood out to me: “change and queer [often] fit together.” How has house music also fit together with change and queer through the years?
STACEY: They say that the music that we play was gay. You know I'm playing a straight club and it didn't have a label, but because we played something like, “Let No Man Put Asunder,” we were very progressive and they labeled it as gay music I don't know how music got gay, maybe because it didn’t play on the radio, I don't know; so that was my mindset – being different and being able to change music. And that's all the more reason why you go to the club to get it because you couldn't get anywhere else. And so that's what made it big, and just by nature, human beings, you know, you have to be different. That's just the nature of people. That's how humanity grows, by changing.
DXD: Does “Hotwaxx” ever still pull out the vinyl for a full set?
STACEY: Yes, she does. I’m just not carrying them anymore. I’ve got it all right here. We do this thing called Slow Jams every Monday and it's nothing but records and I play records at Spot Lite too. I love records, I will always love records, especially if it’s grounded right – when you get that feedback, I don’t need that jumpin’. I take my own needles everywhere I go no matter what. No, that’s an old school peeve. I carry my own needles with me.
DXD: You started the Sheometry Music & Arts Festival to showcase other female artists, and it returns this July. Tell us about what that festival means to you.
STACEY: I do want to talk about that. That's very dear to me. You've heard of the Winter Music, correct? Back in the 90’s I was a Billboard reporter for years. And they would always fly me down there. And I'd sit on panels playing music and all that, you know, just having a good time. The collaboration of it would be worldwide and we come in and share and do all kinds of things. And I knew that we had talent here in Detroit that needed to be showcased that way. And, you know, because everybody didn't have the ability to go down there and I just wanted to show off Detroit. So John Collins and I created the Detroit Regional Music Conference. We had a six year run and the idea of it was to bring the business of music to Detroit. As the years go by, because this was ‘96, here come festivals, and most of the time, it's 100 men and six women. That’s how it always was. So I say if you don’t like what they do, then do it your damn self. That’s how Sheometry came to be. And it is primarily women, with a splash of men. This is not a women’s conference or festival, but it is primarily women, with a spash of men. The whole point and purpose in doing Sheometry is to highlight Detroit, and to highlight other people. In many situations like this, I’m trying to program for people to shine.
CLOSING WORDS
DXD: This episode of UltraMaroon celebrates queer, Black, Detroit house music. As true legends of the artform of DJing representing Detroit, what would you both want to say to people on dance floors everywhere that have been moved by the power of house music?
RIMARKABLE: Can you feel it? That's the truth right there. That's what I want to say. Can you feel it?
STACEY “HOTWAXX” HALE: I want to say share the love. Keep smiling and keep dancing and you can overcome anything. Music can make you happy. That’s what it does for me.
AL ESTER: Keep listening.
Thank you Stacey “Hotwaxx” Hale and Al Ester, as well as our co-curators of this special edition of UltraMaroon, Rimarkable and Someone From Berlin, for bringing this all together.
You can keep listening with us this Sunday, March 19, at Blue Midtown as UltraMaroon brings the Legends of Detroit to New York City. Doors open at 5pm with a warm-up set from another Michigan native, Elijah Curry. Get your tickets here!
Stacey “Hotwaxx” Hale: @hotwaxx, djhotwaxx.com; Al Ester: Mixcloud; Rimarkable: @iamrimarkable, iamrimarkable.com
Xx,
DavidXDaisy